Episode #108: Raising Creative Kiddos with Elizabeth Chapman

Elsie: You’re listening to the A Beautiful Mess podcast today. My mom is joining me for a special episode about raising creative kids. Emma and I always get a lot of questions about how our parents nurtured us creatively and as we’ve become parents ourselves it’s one of our highest priorities and how we want to raise our own children. In this episode, you’ll hear our mom’s tips and you’ll also get an idea of her overall philosophy for raising creative kids. We’re also doing a quick interview with my children at the end, since they are the ones living this advice in real time. So let’s jump in. Hi, Mom!

Elizabeth: Hi, Elsie!

Elsie: Thank you for coming in. I know you’ve been one of our most requested guests and everyone wants to hear your advice for raising kids. So before we jump in, I was hoping you could give a little bit about your history and our education. Also, what you do for a living as an artist now.

Elizabeth: Ok, well, thank you for having me. I’m very honored to be on the podcast today with a A Beautiful Mess and my daughter Elsie. My background is I can go back to my childhood and I was always a creative kid, always painting, making things. And I graduated with a B.S. in education and art from college. And from there I got married and I started raising kids and I was a stay-at-home mom until the youngest was in kindergarten. And that is when I went to work in a high school teaching art. I did that for about 10 years and I started feeling as if I was really more of an artist than I really felt a teacher. And I needed to get out and kind of spread my wings and see if that was really true and it was true. I’ve been creating art professionally, selling art for the last ten years.

Elsie: We talk a lot on the podcast about how people can have a totally new career that you haven’t even started after 40, which I think is one of the most inspiring things anyone can ever do. So you’re a living example.

Elizabeth: Oh, thank you.

Elsie: Yeah. And my mom was actually my art teacher in high school for a bit. So I took her zero hour class, which is a ceramics class at like — was it like six in the morning, mom? So I had to go to school super, super early and we made our own ceramics, which was really, really fun. And I was also in her art class as well. And then, yeah, we obviously did art at home our entire childhood. So I think that’s what…where I want to first start is, can you describe to us a little bit about the art that we did as kids?

Elizabeth: Well, this question was first posed to me several years ago. I learned that there had been an interest in what I did to have these creative kids. And I thought, I am not sure that I did anything. So in looking back, I feel like I really pretty much allowed them — supplied them with a lot of materials and gave them a lot of freedom in choosing what they wanted to do and with crayons and paper and paint and scissors and glue, they just pretty much made their own creations, their own artwork.

Elsie: Yeah. One of the things my mom did and does, she even did it this morning with my kids because she was watching them while I was doing meetings this morning, is that she’ll set out the supplies and if you like, need a little help getting started, maybe she’ll give you a little bit of instruction. But overall, she lets the child lead the art project. And I really think that is one of the huge pieces that I learned from

Elizabeth: This morning. And that’s what we were doing. And one thing just led to the next thing. And we worked for an hour and a half just making things and just having a lot of fun.

Elsie: Tell them all the things the kids made this morning because I know they want to hear.

Elizabeth: Well, let’s see. Nova painted two large paintings…Nova worked with – she has her own little sketchbook. And so she was working with that. She’s really into Buzz Lightyear. So she was wanting to draw a Buzz Lightyear (laughs) and that was fine. We worked on Buzz Lightyear for a while and then we got into drawings and kings and queens along with Buzz Lightyear. And at some point Goldie was just watching. She got tired and she laid down and we made a blanket out of paper. Two large pieces of paper. And then I came up with the idea, Goldie, why don’t you draw shapes on your blanket, kind of like a quilt and you could have lines and colors on there and make it really bright. She thought that was a great idea. So she was back up again and she started drawing on it. And that’s when Nova came in and started drawing Buzz Lightyear on her blanket. And so that was fun, too. So we had a great time.

Elsie: Yeah, I think that one of the things I really, really learned from my mom is to not be so sure of what I want the outcome of the kid’s projects to be. What did you call the art like? Like the Pinterest type of art? You had a name for it?

Elizabeth: I think it was something like “make the parents happy type of art”.

Elsie: (laughs) Yeah. I think you called it like wall art or fridge art or something like that. Anyway, so when you go on Pinterest and you see like, you know, the little caterpillar, the butterfly, the lion, like all these cute projects. And I did this at the beginning of quarantine. I made a huge folder of like all these little projects that you can do. And I think the…for really young kids, it is a good idea to have these like almost like premade projects where it has like a specific outcome, like you’re using your fingerprints to put dots on the ladybug.

Elizabeth: Those are great. They serve a purpose. But…

Elsie: Yeah, I think that the thing that’s really, really important to understand is that those are just a starting point for kids. And if you use it as a starting point, that’s great. But don’t let that be your whole beginning and end of your project. There needs to be some space in there for the kids to decide their own thing. And like what my mom was saying when Nova wanted to make the Buzz Lightyear, what she was doing was like putting her toy down, tracing it on a poster board, like just being honest. It looked terrible.

Elizabeth: It did not look like Buzz Lightyear.

Elsie: Yeah, it wasn’t it wasn’t art that is going to make it to a fridge or a frame or whatever, but it was teaching her something. It was giving her confidence and she was having fun doing it. And I think that that is one part of nurturing your kids that you cannot skip.

Elizabeth: Yeah. And the reason I call it wall art is because that’s the end product. And we want to we want it to be pretty and we want it to look really nice for the wall, you know, and others will complement and so forth like that. And obviously, when I create, I want my art to look good in the end as well, because that’s how it sells. But there’s a middle part to this thing where it’s ugly and it’s messy and that’s the process. And with children, it’s the same way as well. This morning, Goldie’s paintings that she was working on in the end, they really did not look all that great either (laughs). But it was the process, you know, I mean, she was she was singing along while she was painting. And we were talking we were visiting. And there was things that happened there that a part of the whole creative process and, you know, that she was being encouraged, nurtured, that what she was making was great and wonderful. And it’s a confidence builder. So it’s better to have those things going on, you know, go along with the flow if they start getting out the lines or…

Elsie: …making up their own project.

Elizabeth: No worries. It’s fine. It’s they need that in order to build that confidence up that, you know, they can do this and they have control over it. And I think that’s something that’s really important for children.

Elsie: Yeah. I think it’s like a big part of their development. And like we keep saying, their confidence. So you can have both. Like I just want to like very clearly say I do the micromanaged, like going to turn out a certain way art like I’ll make that for, you know, Mother’s Day, Father’s Day to send to our grandma in the mail, things like that, you know, where it’s like the butterfly that’s already cut out. And all they have to do is like fill it in with colors. And it turns out cute every time there’s nothing wrong with art like that, as long as you leave space and make space for them to do their own art, that doesn’t have to be good and it can just be recycled, you know, turned over and used again the next weekend. It doesn’t have to be anything. It’s just like free time.

Elizabeth: Yeah. And another thing that happens and it happens when I’m creating is accidents happen. And that’s part of the creative process, too, is problem-solving. And how can we make this accident now work for this painting? And it’s the same thing with children, you know. You know, they “whoops I, I spilled some paint on here. Oh no, no. You know, it’s just ruined.” No it’s how can we now make this work for this painting. It’s so many times that’s where the beautiful things come out of. So you know, just have fun with what you’re doing.

Elsie: I remember you saying that in your art class to different students over and over and over again, like, how can you make this mistake into an opportunity? I think that’s such a cool attitude to teach children and you’re right it’s teaching them Problem-Solving. OK, let’s talk about supplies for a little bit. So a huge part of our job as a parent who wants to raise creative kids is just giving them access to supplies. So tell me, what are the supplies that you would consider, like the must-haves that everyone should make sure they have?

Elizabeth: Well, we didn’t have a lot of money to spend on supplies. And that’s the great thing about the visual arts is it doesn’t require a lot of money just some papers and pencils and paint. Watercolors are wonderful. They’re easy to clean up, too. Acrylics can work too — crayons, anything water-soluble, glue, scissors. Those — construction paper is another great one, but all those things can work well. The paper that comes — wrapping paper — you know that your packaging comes and I mean, all that stuff can be used. Cardboard boxes.

Elsie: Yeah, that’s all great ideas. There’s so many cute ideas on Pinterest for toilet paper rolls and things like that. Paper towel rolls, things you can reuse. Yeah. And so in my current office situation, so my kids are basically trained now that they can make art all weekend, every weekend. So every weekend we destroy it where it’s like terrible looking. And every Monday morning I clean it up before I start my work week and shove it all back in a drawer. And then we start again the next weekend. And that’s kind of our routine. So what I would say for people who want to like, give this like unlimited, like creative, free feeling, but you don’t want, like, paint all over the place. Here’s my paint-free solution. So what we have is a stack of construction paper, two pairs of kids scissors and a vase full of regular markers and a basket full of the dot-a-dot markers, which are kind of like the big felt tip markers. And you can kind of make patterns and shapes. You can draw with them, too. And they just have like a really thick line. And I do have glue, but I keep it hidden…only when they ask for it. And then they know that I have googly eyes and they really like the googly eyes. But that’s all. And I mean, that’s really not a lot of supplies. It’s probably like 30 or 40 bucks worth of supplies. And we have been using it for months now. And it really goes a long way, like we make all kinds of little like animals. And like recently, they have this obsession about making school busses. We’ve been making those — butterflies a lot, hearts to send to the grandparents. You guys got a heart, right? Everyone’s getting a heart! And then Nova has her own, it was her idea, that she started making her own money. And I’ll put a picture in the show notes because it’s the cutest thing you’ve ever seen. But yeah, she is like, “oh, it’s so much work making all this money, Mommy!” (laughs) So she does that for hours. And so, yeah, anyway, that’s a way that you can have…

Elizabeth: …and may I add, and I think that’s another important thing that Elsie just mentioned, is to have this sense of freedom that — so it’s a good place, a good thing to have a place where you can allow there to be a mess. Obviously, you know, it’s not OK to go painting on the walls or, you know, spilling paint all over the carpet or her floors, but a place where it’s going to be fairly easy to clean up later on. But still, it’s OK if they make a mess, maybe line newspaper down or plastic over, you know, a large table or something like that. That would just be easy. But because creative — that’s another part of the creative process is feeling like you are not constrained to keeping things neat, clean, cleaning up after yourself right after your painting. I know when I’m painting, I have gotten into that mode whenever I’ve been breaking in a brand new studio and everything is so perfect and clean and I don’t want to mess things up. And you really have to be able to get in there and take those risks and be OK with making a mess. It always cleans up.

Elsie: Yeah, that’s a good point. And now let’s take a quick break and hear from our sponsors.

Managing your time and your to-do list can be so challenging in a creative space. You want to spend your time focusing on the actual content, but instead, you can get bogged down resizing and reformatting for all the various channels. That’s why we’re excited to partner with and share more about Issuu which you can start using for free. Issuu works seamlessly with tools you’re already using, like Dropbox, Canva and InDesign. It’s the all-in-one platform to create and distribute beautiful digital content from marketing materials to magazines to flipbooks and brochures and more. It can really help to make your content stand out. There are some great examples of product catalogs and magazines using Issuu on their website that you can check out for inspiration. Did I mention you can start using Issuu for free? They also offer premium features to give you a more customized experience. Get started with Issuu today for free, or you can sign up for your premium account and you’ll get 50 percent off when you go to issuu.com/podcast and use the promo code ABEAUTIFULMESS. That’s issuu.com/podcast and use our promo code ABEAUTIFULMESS at checkout and you’ll get your free account or 50 percent off your premium account.

Perfect after a weekend workout, during happy hour, or even with a meal, June Shine hard kombucha is the great tasting better-for-you alcohol option. June Shine is the champagne of kombucha. They use green tea and honey as opposed to black tea and sugar for a smoother, less acidic taste. My personal favorite is still the blood orange mint. I recommend trying it if you haven’t yet. Not only is June Shine the better for you option, it’s also sustainably produced. They donate one percent of all sales to environmental nonprofits. Their brewery is powered by 100 percent renewable solar. They plant trees for those used to make their six-pack boxes and they just committed to becoming 100 percent carbon neutral. You can even have it delivered directly to your doorstep. How ideal is that? Delivery is easy and hassle-free. We’ve worked out an exclusive deal for A Beautiful Mess podcast listeners. Receive twenty percent off plus free shipping on their best-selling variety pack. This is a great way to try all of their delicious flavors. Go to juneshine.com/abeautifulmess Or use the code ABEAUTIFULMESS at checkout to claim this deal. That’s juneshine.com/abeautifulmess. This discount is only valid for their variety pack. June Shine can also be found in over ten thousand stores across the country, including Whole Foods, Safeway, Kroger and Publix.

OK, so let’s talk about yesterday. So yesterday we got out the clay and my mom and I were making like real we were using like real white clay. As you guys know I’ve been setting up like a pottery room and I’m getting a kiln and I’m just, like, so excited about that. So I have real clay. But then for the kids, I let Nova use real clay a couple of weeks ago. And it was like it was really messy because you have to use water like on your fingers as you’re building with it. And it just got like a little much. So I had them using Model Magic while we were doing the clay and they did not notice that they had a different supply, which was awesome. And OK, I have to just like give the biggest shout-out for Model Magic. I’ve bought it in bulk. Last year we made like a whole tree full of these butterfly ornaments and stuff in our, like, early quarantine times for our craft every day. And yesterday Nova made this little like cup by hand and it’s so special. And then in like two days, it’ll be dry enough or she can paint it and then we can do like a shiny coat on it. And I think Model Magic’s the greatest thing ever. Yeah, it’s just air dry clay.

Elizabeth: And experimenting with new, you know, materials. Bringing in and introducing new materials too art is a great thing with kids.

Elsie: Oh yeah, we were letting them use like the stamps. There’s some stamps that we bought for pottery and you can easily use those with like play dough or air dry clair as well. So they were doing that and it was so cute. So another thing I wanted to talk about is the idea that like raising creative kids, it’s not just art. Like I was really into art growing up and my brother was really into music and my sister and I were both really into fashion. Once we got in about junior high and high school and our parents were so supportive of our like our fashion stages were severe. Really, really, really crazy thrift store outfits. Because when we were in high school and junior high in the 1990s, the late 1990s, the thrift stores were mostly full of seventies clothes, which it’s not like that anymore. Now you are finding your 90s clothes there, of course. But yeah, it was like an epic time to be a thrift store shopper. And we had like closets full of 70s clothes, like so much polyester. I don’t know how we found that many pairs of pants that fit us. And I only remember my mom telling me like that I couldn’t wear something or they should change clothes one time ever.

Elizabeth: They were having a lot of fun with it. So I know there’s a lot worse things that kids could be doing.

Elsie: Yeah. How do you let your kids go through a stage that you don’t like, appreciate yourself? Like how do you be supportive through that?

Elizabeth: I guess a couple of things. I mean, when they were really young, I didn’t really know that I was actually doing things that were nurturing the creative process. But I felt it was important to be able to have this freedom and make your own choices. And so, I mean, if we were going somewhere where I knew that they needed to dress really, really nicely and so forth, I would lay out like several different outfits they could choose from. So they had a choice, but they that they had to choose from that. Other than that, my philosophy was pick your battles. You know, it’s you can’t be fighting about everything. So to me, it wasn’t a problem if they, you know, didn’t — their socks weren’t matching or if they decided to wear this top with that. Those are choices that they were making. And again, it’s just kind of like I was talking about a while ago, the process, that middle part of the painting or drawing or whatever it might be, it may not look so pretty, but it’s building up to something. And those years that was what was going on there unknowingly. I did not know, you know, they would be coming — become these people who were going to be involved in A Beautiful Mess and what it is today. But that’s what they were going through that then making these choices through these vintage dresses that they were buying and cutting them up and reconstructing them. And so it was fun and they were having a good time with it, so.

Elsie: Ok, so in the late 1990s, duct tape clothing was a thing and I made a dress out of duct tape, which was pretty much just like a tight dress actually, just like covered in duct tape. And then I had to, like, cut myself out of the back of it. But then obviously very easy to, like, retape yourself back in because it’s just a dress made of tape. I felt very supported, though, and I hope so much that my kids go through a phase like that…

Elizabeth: And that was for a very conservative banquet that you were going to!

Elsie: Yeah! They know I went to Christian High School. Yeah. We had to like, walk into the principal’s office and they like measure like how thick your sleeve strap is to make sure it’s like the full two inches and that how many inches above your knee and like all of that. But I made sure that it was like technically perfect in those ways and they could not deny me my duct tape dress. (laughs)

Elizabeth: So you wore your duct tape dress to the banquet!

Elsie: I did. I did. And my mom sewed one of my prom dresses. And you sewed some of your own prom dresses as well?

Elizabeth: Yes I did. I made my my prom dress and some other dresses for some events. Yeah.

Elsie: If you can everyone just remember, fashion is the best hobby for high schoolers. It was our vibe. And I hope that my kids go through that phase. But if they want to be like little Abercrombie kids, I’ll support that too! Whatever they decide is fine. (laughs) Let’s talk about building up that attention span, because this is one of the biggest questions I get about our kids as toddlers, because I’ve posted on Instagram for the past few years, like our kids are able to paint like big paintings in like one sitting or one day, which is like a pretty good achievement for a toddler. And I want to talk a little bit about how we got to that attention span, because it definitely is not something that they were born with and it’s not something that just happened instantly. With both kids, we would like on the weekends especially, and then just kind of like any when you need to, like, fill an hour after school or whatever, we would get out the art supplies and just let them go for it. You know? I think that letting kids, like, practice cutting with kid scissors is one of the best things you can do. And it takes up so much time and they have so much fun doing it. And it’s like you don’t really have to supervise. I mean, obviously, like, I guess it’s scissors, but you don’t really have to, like, tell them what to make. They just like doing it. And the same way with, you know, markers. And we barely even buy coloring books like we mostly just use coloring books for road trips like the Water Wow And stuff is cool for a road trip, but it’s not like something that you really need in your home, I don’t think. But anyway, I kind of just want to encourage people that if your kid the first time or the first, like forty times only wants to sit and do art for like less than five minutes. That’s really normal. And with both our kids, a time came where and it was I think about three years old for each of them where it clicked and all of a sudden they could go for like a full hour and they went from like being over it in five minutes to painting for thirty minutes to an hour just overnight. But I think that you know, all those little stepping stones of all the times that I got all the supplies and cleaned them up so that they could do it for three minutes was how we got there.

Elizabeth: And all kids are different and all ages are different, too, so some kids, you know, it may be five minutes, but it’s again, it’s not quantity there, it’s quality. So what did they do in those five minutes? And that might be building to the next time. And if they’re having fun with what they’re doing and exploring and experimenting with the supplies that they’ve got, they just become more curious and more interested in what they’re doing. And that increases your attention span as well. So I think it really depends on the kids and in, you know, what how they’re feeling that day to this morning when I was working with Goldie and Nova, Nova said today, “I feel like art all day”. You know, some days I don’t. Yeah, but and that’s true. We all are like that. So we have to, you know, again, like just accept where we’re at and how we’re feeling. And yeah, it’s OK. We don’t want to just force this creative thing onto…

Elsie: Yeah. The main message I would give is just to just don’t give up. And if you prepare this big elaborate craft and they don’t get into it and they don’t do it, just put it back in the drawer and try it again in two weeks

Elizabeth: And maybe tomorrow. Yeah, tomorrow. I’ve got another granddaughter that just reminded me of Penny. She would do something like that. She might today. She might just, you know, like, turn her nose up but tomorrow, just be totally into it.

Elsie: It’s true. I have noticed that when that our kids do art for longer with the times that they’re like asking for it. You know, and the times it’s like my suggestion, maybe it’s like a little shorter. So if they ask for it, that’s what, you know, the cupboard or the drawer or however you want to store your art supplies, I would say just like find a tub or a basket where you can just keep them all together and you can just grab them, bring them out and they can do it whenever they want. And I think feeling that feeling like you always have access is one of the number one most important things you can do.

Elizabeth: That’s really good.

Elsie: Ok, let’s take a quick break for our sponsors.

I’ve been absolutely loving my shampoo and conditioner from Function of Beauty. This month I switched to the peach scent and it’s amazing. I love how you can customize how strong you want the fragrance to be when you make your formula, or you can go fragrance-free if that’s your preference. If you haven’t checked out their online quiz, I would encourage you to try that to get started. Here’s how it works. Function of Beauty creates your unique formula based on a short but thorough quiz to give your hair everything it needs to look and feel its best. Every product is sulfate and paraben free — vegan and cruelty free — and there are over sixty thousand real five-star customer reviews. I love that for most of their products you can choose the color as well. Just one more fun way to customize the products that you see every day in your shower. Getting a fully customized set of haircare with your name on it delivered right to your door sounds like such a fun treat and gift, and it is. Go to functionofbeauty.com/mess to take your quiz and save twenty percent off your first order. That applies to their full range of customized hair, skin and body products. That’s functionofbeauty.com/mess to let them know you heard about it here and you’ll get twenty percent off your first order.

Emma: Learning about your reproductive health doesn’t have to be intimidating whether you’re planning or trying to conceive or just want to learn more about your body’s reproductive health. Modern Fertility’s simple at home test is a great resource. It’s so helpful to be able to collect information about your body and Modern Fertility is a great tool to get started. It provides you with information about your body and you can learn about things like egg count, menopause timing, and if your hormone levels indicate conditions like thyroid disorders or PCOS. There is so much valuable information you can gain. No matter what your motivation for learning is. Doctors are still able to provide the most important resources when it comes to medical information. But being able to understand more and have more knowledge from an at-home test is amazing. What I loved about Modern Fertility and what made me give it a try was I didn’t have to make an appointment or go to a doctor to complete the test. They simply mail you the kit, you complete the finger prick test at home, mail it back and you get your results online through their website. Right now, Modern Fertility is offering our listeners twenty dollars off the test. When you go to modernfertility.com/mess, that means your test will cost one hundred and thirty nine dollars instead of the hundreds or thousands that it could cost to the doctor’s office. Get twenty dollars off your fertility test when you go to modernfertility.com/mess. That’s modernfertility.com/mess.

Elsie: Before we go, we wanted to talk about adults who want to nurture themselves creatively because like maybe you grew up with a parent who only appreciated those like school art projects that are like very structured and like the, you know, like happy and the sunshine with sunglasses and blah, blah, blah, you know. So what do you say for people who are adults, who are like, I want to, like, give myself a tiny bit more nurturing and I want to get into art because when I sit down in front of my canvas and paints, I feel like my brain is melting and I don’t even know what to do or where to start. And I have no confidence.

Elizabeth: The first thing I would say would be to, you know, watch your children paint and create because they are naturally they’ve already got it in there. We are all born with this creative nature in us, and it’s so natural to them. It’s as we go along that we start getting told and critiqued. And I think we just start kind of shying away. But…and if you don’t have any kids, you know, maybe find a child and just watch them because they’re so totally free and having a fun time and they’re just playing and experimenting and they’re not the least bit worried about does this — do these colors match or or am I getting this right or is anybody going to like this? Yeah, it’s just so totally — it’s art.

Elsie: How do you turn off your brain though from the like the natural adult desire to have like a perfect painting? And how do you, like, tap into that more intuitive side?

Elizabeth: Well, you know, other artists really have this had this problem going on. And it’s really a pretty common thing. And if you’ve ever heard about or people talk about the left and right side of your brain, the left side is the logical side, which is basically what we’re using as we’re running all the time. But the right side is the creative side and it’s the lesser of the brain that is used. But we’re basically using both at the same time. We just need to get more into the right and let the left go away. And it’s the one that wants to tell us that this is not — this is not working right. So how do we get into that? As an artist, I can tell you that the more you paint, the faster it is to get into it. In the beginning of my career, it might take me a couple hours to get into it. But the important thing is to just keep going. You’re going to hear yourself talking and saying, oh, this is so ugly, this won’t work. I’ve never had any talent. Nobody’s going to like this. I’m not going to be able to sell this. It’s too this. It’s too that. And if you get past that, just keep painting just ignore it, keep painting. You will get into this area sometimes music can help if you’re listening to music or sometimes also if you’re listening maybe to a podcast or some audiobooks that kind of takes your mind…

Elsie: What kind of music do you listen to?

Elizabeth: …take your mind away from yourself and you can get to where you’re you’re kind of like drawing and painting and you don’t even realize you’re doing it. So you’re making these decisions without your logical brain interrupting you. Music that I listen to. I’m so terrible with remembering names and titles, but I love to listen to really basically all kinds of music. I love to listen to classical music. Jazzy music. Shout out to Sleeping at Last! I listen to Jeremy and Trey — these are people in our family that are musicians. But I, I do. I just love to listen. Sometimes I don’t listen to music. I go through these times when I — it’s more of a solitude time. And I’m, I am actually thinking about things in my life that need to be taken care of or… And so anything that takes your mind away from critiquing yourself basically is what you need to try and do.

Elsie: Nice. Do you listen to audiobooks ever?

Elizabeth: Yes, I have been starting to listen to audiobooks and I love that.

Elsie: I have — ever since I started listening to audiobooks. I don’t feel like I have enough time for podcasts anymore, but I love audiobooks because I like marathoning things. I like things that like last more than one sitting. Where you’re like looking forward to coming back to it.

Elizabeth: Exactly. Yes.

Elsie: So yeah, I like movies and audio books are my favorite things to do creative stuff too. Cool. OK, well I want everyone to see your paintings and know where they can follow you. So give us those resources.

Elizabeth: Well you could just Google my name Elizabeth Chapman and you would, you would find me ElizabethChapmanArt.com is my website. I’m on Instagram so @elizabethchapman77.

Elsie: In the show, notes today we will — we’ll link to your art, your Instagram. We will also link to all the supplies that we were suggesting throughout for kids and adults. I honestly feel like. One thing I don’t think we said yet is people always ask me, like, what are the best art supplies for kids? And honestly, like besides construction paper and kids scissors, most of the supplies my kids use are my stuff. Like they’re just using the stuff, like the paint and the canvases and all the stuff is just my stuff that’s already here. So if you enjoy doing art, you can kind of just share everything with your kids and you can even, like, let them use like the leftover stuff.

Elizabeth: Elsie started with my stuff. I think we have a picture. You’re about two, maybe three at a big table with my college left over art supplies and you’re painting — that’s what I had and so that’s what I used.

Elsie: I was like, a toddler painting with oil paints, which is the cutest thing I can imagine. Yeah. If you are a creative person or if you want to be, just think of stocking up your art drawer or your art closet or whatever as communal and everyone in your whole home can use the stuff and it doesn’t really matter. There’s not — I personally don’t care about kids’ paint and being completely washable. I just let my kids get paint stains on their clothes. (laughs)

Elizabeth: You can also have special clothes that you wear for painting and I think that’s a great idea and they’ll know to put those on.

Elsie: I did when my kids were really little, but as they have gotten older, it’s just not that bad anymore. So I kind of just don’t worry about it. And if my kids do have, like, a little paint stain on their shirt, I just consider that like a relic of childhood that like, if I don’t care, you don’t care. You know what I mean?

Elizabeth: But if it bothers you, you could have special clothes for them to wear so they can wear a little apron or something.

Elsie: Yeah, it’s all good. Just don’t feel like you have to get the most watery paint ever, just so it’ll be washable because like, I don’t support that paint. (laughs)

Elizabeth: The main thing is have fun, just have fun. It’s a great time to do things together. And yeah.

Elsie: It’s true. On the weekends when my kids are making art a lot of times I’m working on my own creative projects and it gives me little chances. So I think that’s great. OK, so in the show notes, we will show the supplies we’ll show the links. All right. So now we have a special segment. My kids are going to come on and we have recorded a little interview with them. And I will just warn you, they’re six and three and they had their own ideas of what they wanted to say. And I was like laughing through the whole thing. So I hope you enjoy that.

Nova: Hello, my name is Nova and I am six. And right here next to me is my sister Goldie that’s three. And we are also going to help Mommy finish the podcast now.

Goldie: Me!

Nova: Cause we all do it. I hope everyone enjoys our podcast and I hope you make one sometime, too.

Elsie: Thanks, Nova! Your first question is what is your favorite kind of art that you like to make with Mommy?

Goldie: I like to make a heart!

Nova: I love to make a heart and also stuff with Goldie too. What do you like to do?

Goldie: I like to make a heart.

Elsie: A heart! And what else have you made recently?

Goldie: I made a school bus and…

Nova: I made a school bus and butterfly. Goldie made a butterfly, too. And how about you?

Elsie: (laughs) And what about yesterday when we had the clay? What did you guys make with the clay yesterday?

Nova: Yesterday, Goldie made…(whispers) what did you make Goldie?

Goldie: (whispers) The pancake.

Nova: Goldie made a pancake and I made a cup! I hope you do play sometimes, too. Thank you for joining Mommy’s podcast.

Elsie: (laughs) OK, which art that you’ve ever made in your whole life are you the most proud?

Nova: Goldie’s!

Elsie: Oh, that’s sweet. What art did Goldie make that you were proud of?

Goldie: Nova’s!

Nova: I liked when Goldie made her cute little owl because I saw it. Cuz I saw it Momma.

Elsie: Yeah, that was a good owl.

Elsie: What about you, Goldie? What were you so proud of?

Goldie: I love to make the school bus and heart.

Elsie: Nice. My next question is. What else do we do in mommy’s office whenever we make art?

Nova: We also watch TV.

Elsie: Yeah. What kinds of TV do you like to watch

Nova: Daniel Tiger! Goldie…

Goldie: What?

Nova: (whispers) say Toy Story.

Goldie: We watch Toy Story!

Elsie: Yeah, and what about snacks? What are your favorite snacks to have?

Nova: Also, And we also love those nuts in Mommy’s art room.

Elsie: Nova likes the wasabi almonds. That’s her favorite thing.

Nova: Thanks for joining our podcast. I hope you make a podcast, too.

Elsie: Great job woooo! Mommy’s proud. Thank you.

Nova: See you later. I hope you have a great — whenever you want to make a podcast. I hope it turns out really good. I am glad that you could join our podcast today. See you, bye bye!

Elsie: All right. Thank you so much for listening. And we’ll be back next week!