Episode #92: Who’s On Our Vision Board

Emma: You’re listening to the A Beautiful Mess podcast, and today we are talking about who is on our vision boards. If you’re not familiar with the concept, in a nutshell, this basically just means these are heroes of ours or people that we look up to for specific reasons. We hope this inspires you to make your own vision board because having heroes is a big motivating factor in my life as I dream about the kind of impact I want to have and the kind of life I want to live.

Elsie: That’s a beautiful intro, Emma. I love it.

Emma: Thanks. Yeah. And I should say off the top, I don’t have a literal vision board. I feel like sometimes I talk about my vision board and people are like, oh, like you have it hanging up in your office? And you could totally do that. I, I don’t have a literal one. This is more just like in my mind, like I…you know.

Elsie: Same. Yeah. It’s in my heart actually.

Emma: Yeah. It’s in my heart. It’s in my head. You know, hopefully it’s in my actions and in my attitude — that’s the goal here. So yeah. So we’re each going to say three people. For the record, there are a lot more people on my vision board than just three. So this is like kind of a mini abbreviated version. I also…

Elsie: Actually this episode got majorly delayed because I had such a hard time picking my people. In the end, I did kind of just like go with my heart. But it’s — it was so hard to narrow down.

Emma: Yeah. We could definitely do a follow up with like three more and then three more. I’m like always adding people. I even sometimes put fictional characters on there for random reasons. So I’m also just going to put it out there up top because, you know, we love disclaimers, that I don’t really feel like every person on my vision board or every hero in my life has to be perfect or that I have to agree with every single thing about them. I actually believe that humans are flawed and imperfect. I am, and so are my heroes. So we’re going to tell you the like things that we look up to them for. But, yeah, I don’t know. I feel like sometimes people can kind of get hung up on that.

Elsie: Yeah, just keep your mind open and just let these be our heroes.

Emma: Okay. My first one is Hillary Clinton. So I had to put her because obviously, she’s on my vision board. But also that’s probably like the number one, like, meme or like GIF or jif that I send Elsie all the time whenever she’s like trying to tell me that she’s proud of me for handling something, which Elsie does a lot. And it’s really, really kind of her. I always just text back like gif of Hillary Clinton putting her sunglasses on and her earrings (laughs) where she’s just like handling it because that’s what I really admire about her. I think there’s a lot of things to admire about her, but I love that she never gives up. I think that she’s probably one of the most criticized and in some ways hated women in the world. And she just doesn’t give up. She has a vision of how she wants to change the world and how she wants to have an impact. And she keeps going. And I think that that’s a really powerful way to move through the world. So I hope that I can have that much tenacity.

Elsie: Yeah, absolutely. I would put her on mine as well. But you already stole her. Emma wrote her outline before me, so — but actually my first one has some similar qualities. So my first hero is Martha Stewart. And I think initially I was conflicted on whether or not to put Martha Stewart. Not that I am not a super fan. I am and I always have been. But there’s definitely been like a long — like there’s been seasons of my life where it really bothered me that people constantly compared what we do to Martha Stewart. And so there was like like lots of seasons in my life where I was trying to distance myself from her and sort of be like ‘oh, nah’, you know what I mean? Like, whatever. And then there were also many seasons of my life where I was a super fan, like in my early twenties, like my whole library stack was like Martha Stewart, everything Martha Stewart like in the Kmart days. I remember very, very vividly the prison drama. It was like when I was in my early twenties. So I was up on all of that. And it was honestly like terrifying because at the time people were acting like her business was going to be ruined forever. And I thought that it might. Her magazine is like absolute nostalgia, magic for people who love magazines and the magazine era, which is kind of over now. It is a part of like, our, like, many years…

Emma: Wow, burn magazines!

Elsie: Well, but you know, it kind of is.

Emma: Well, the Internet has changed things.

Elsie: It’s different.

Emma: Yeah. For sure. Yeah.

Elsie: There was a time when you mainly got your inspiration from magazines.

Emma: Right.

Elsie: And I would say that that time in history is probably over. You know, it was like. When there wasn’t Pinterest and…

Emma: Just one source. Yeah, I agree.

Elsie: Yeah, it was like if I felt down and I wanted to get inspired, you know, I would haul ass to Barnes and Noble and look through the magazines and pick up like ten of them and read them all and drink a coffee and then buy none of them and leave. And that was what you did, you know? (laughs) To get inspired. And her magazine and she had more than one in her heyday, but her magazines were absolute magic and perfection. So I have a lot of things to say about Martha Stewart. But I guess the first thing is that, like, people can barely even talk about her without knocking her down. It’s something I’ve always noticed. And as I’ve grown older, I’ve become more conscious of it and more defensive for her. Not that she needs me, but kind of for all women that, like people can’t say anything about her without saying like a criticism. One of the common ones is, oh, she was really like, make all of her recipes herself. And it’s like, well no shit! (laughs)

Emma: Yeah, no shit!

Elsie: Obvious. And obviously, she went to federal prison. Like, there are not very many celebrities who have served like — five months is a long time for a rich white celebrity to serve in prison. She’s definitely has like one of the most famous, like, prison record stories in our time. And she was released from prison in March and she released a book about what she learned in October of that same year. So she began rebuilding her empire immediately, which I think is amazing. Looking back, it seems like it was all so seamless. I remember at the time like wondering if she would even make it. And now it seems like she barely even had a hiccup in her career. She definitely has a timeless style. So I recently like for fun, I discovered this place called like thriftbooks.com, which everyone has to go there. Like if you remember Amazon in the early days when you could get super cheap books, it’s like that and it’s like the book I got. So I got her book Entertaining, which is released in 1982, was her first book, which is the year I was born. So it’s special — because of me.

Emma: (laughs)

Elsie: And anyway she — I wanted to have a copy of this book because recently I got really inspired over the idea that Martha Stewart released her first book when she was either 41 or 42 I can’t remember. And now she’s released 97 books and counting and there’s more than one a year normally. So she’ll make it to one hundred soon. I’m going to celebrate that with her. I love that she’s trying new things constantly. She’s not a snob. When I was researching this episode, I was like Googling about her Match.com sponsorship at age 71, where she had her own Match.com profile and went on all these TV shows, explaining it and talking about it and promoting it, which, if you think about it, is actually a great idea for people her age to consider doing. And she probably sold a lot for them. I read that she was the first female self-made billionaire when her company first sold in 1999. Anyways, I’m going on and on and like I’m not even like touching on the Snoop Dogg stuff or the pot sugar cookies. There’s just so much gold in Martha Stewart. She is my queen. And I feel like next time you hear someone talking shit about how she doesn’t do enough, just take a pause and just remember this huge rant I just went on. She definitely deserves her glory. And when you have a moment, Google: Martha Stewart Turkey Hill home. And just like look at all the pictures, it’s like the greatest home of all time.

Emma: Yeah, it is very interesting, just the ways that we tend to tear people down, like the, you know, Martha Stewart doesn’t do enough. What a strange…

Elsie: It’s crazy.

Emma: Yeah. It doesn’t make any sense at all. It’s a very strange, you know, criticism. And yeah, I do agree. I feel like sometimes that stuff happens a little more with women, women in business, women in politics, women in powerful positions.

Elsie: One hundred percent.

Emma: So it’s a little bit silly. It’s silly. And we’re going to take a quick break and hear a word from our sponsor:

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Emma: OK, so next person on my vision board is Ralph Nader. So if you’re…

Elsie: Emma loves Ralph Nader.

Emma: I do.

Elsie: she talks about Ralph Nader all the time. OK, go on, Emma.

Emma: I do. I have a bracelet that’s like what would Ralph Nader do? No. (laughs) I don’t know, bracelet. That would be cool. I would wear it! So if you’re not familiar with Ralph Nader, I would recommend watching the documentary an Unreasonable Man. It’s a great documentary. It’s kind of about his life and career. And I feel like the thing, if you don’t know very much about him, it could be that the only thing you know about him is either seatbelts or that he ran for president once, which those are two big highlights. But there’s so much more to him. So I really recommend the documentary or I’m sure that there’s great books written about him. So anyway, check him out. He’s a cool dude. But the thing that I always say about him does have to do with the seatbelt. So if you don’t know, one of the main reasons that we have seatbelts is in large part or, you know, a big part of it is Ralph Nader. So he had a friend or it might have been a couple. They died in a car accident. I believe this was in the 70s when there just wasn’t a lot of car safety talk happening or like safety measures being done in automobiles. It could have even been the late sixties. I’m not sure. But he was like, that’s messed up. And my friend could still be here if there was better, you know, safety measures or we were talking about this. And so he went after, I guess you could say, legally through the court system, the automobile industries, which are at the time, and still very large, powerful industries. So a very intimidating thing to do. But he just felt it was the right thing to do. And as such, a lot more safety measures were introduced over the years, including seatbelts. So the thing with the seatbelt to me is like he has probably saved potentially millions of lives because of his decision to pursue that. But it’s also like this kind of random and not very sexy and very easy to make fun of thing that he did like most of the time, people kind of when they talk about Ralph Nader, it is a bit of a joke, you know, seatbelts and things. And I have this little saying all the time that, like, I want to find my seatbelt. I want to find my thing where I change the world. And it doesn’t matter to me if it’s like sexy or if people think it’s kind of silly, but it’s like a cause that…

Elsie: Or if no one even remembers that you did it.

Emma: Yeah. It doesn’t even matter if people know that I did it. It’s just like I want to do something that has that kind of impact, because when you really like, you stand back and look at it, it’s like he really changed the world, like for the better. But it’s over something that, you know, in a lot of ways, like I don’t even think about when I get in my car, I just put my seatbelt on. I don’t even think about it at all. So it’s pretty cool. And he has a lot of things like that, that’s just one of them. That’s like his whole career is like finding ways to make the world a better place. One of the things he always says is he wants to be a professional citizen. I love that idea of just like I’m proud of my country and as such, I want to make it a better place. And I’m just going to do whatever I can do to make that happen. And I love that attitude. I hope that I can cultivate that throughout my life and that might mean, like making my little business better, making the school that my son goes to better getting involved in my community, could mean a million different things, but I hope that I never lose sight of trying to make the world a little bit better.

Elsie: That’s beautiful. I love that.

Emma: Yeah. Ralph Nader, he’s awesome. (laughs)

Elsie: I’m gonna watch that documentary. I don’t know anything about him.

Emma: He’s cool, he’s a cool dude.

Elsie: What’s it called again?

Emma: An Unreasonable Man.

Elsie: OK, cool. All right. Well, my second person on my vision board and also only man is Jonathan Adler. So I had to pick Jonathan Adler and, yeah I had to. So if you don’t know, I got to interview him on episode 49 and it is always going to be one of my favorite episodes of all time because I spent a whole week Internet stalking him before and I was watching it like obscure interviews from 20 years ago, speeches he gave at colleges, like the whole thing. It was really fun. It made me feel like a journalist a little bit. And he’s obviously a great person. He has four books. His books are really like what first changed my life, because at the time this is actually like really funny to me now. But we were writing our own home decor book and I didn’t really have a hero in the space. And I think a lot of it I just like didn’t have like an entry or a connection. I found a lot of it to be like really snobby or just like boring or not interesting. It just is something that, like, I was very slow to connect. I don’t feel that way at all anymore. But at the time I just hadn’t found my little bridge. And Jonathan Adler was definitely my bridge. His books, like, really spoke to me. They have a lot of text and writing. It’s very inclusive it’s very encouraging that whatever you want to do in your house is great. Lots of like, permission-giving. And I think that that’s really special. Like the emphasis is on being yourself and making your home feel cool. And he talks about like fancy stuff and chic stuff and he has snobby references in there. Like once you like what they all are like, you kind of see that. But at first I didn’t feel that way at all. So it was like the perfect way to be introduced to the snobby world of interior design was through someone just so decidedly inclusive. And if you listen to his episode, you’ll hear, like one of my favorite quotes that he said on the episode was, it’s not good to be a snob at the beginning…or the beginning, middle or end of your career. And I loved that. So anyway, he designed his dream house from scratch. I love that because it’s — it’s historic. Like, it looks like a historic home, like a 60s home, but it’s brand new. And he picked out everything and made it look that way. And that gives me inspiration because I think anyone living in a new home like you have to like, hold on to those references and be like it’s possible for me too, you know, I can do that, too! So anyway, I am just like, oh, a forever fan of Jonathan Adler. Every year he comes out with something weird and cool. It’s very — like his brand is very expensive. It’s very…

Emma: I mean, it’s expensive, but it’s not all bananas. I, I would still say some of it’s quite attainable like, you know, and also it has a lot of whimsy. Yeah. Like whimsy or like I feel like he has a good sense of humor about himself is one thing I would say like and it comes out in his designs or some of it anyway because he’s kind of I don’t know, just be funny.

Elsie: That’s true.

Emma: His cookie jars that have like CBD on it or you know, other things.

Elsie: Yeah, he has like a lot of, like, drug-inspired phrases on his items. But he himself he says he doesn’t like do any drugs. He doesn’t drink alcohol at all. He’s just like straight edge. Anyway, I love him and his hotel, the Parker in Palm Springs is kind of this little Mecca. If you get into mid-century design, I highly suggest making your own little pilgrimage to Palm Springs. And everything about Palm Springs is inspiring. But the Parker is definitely next level and you get to see his pottery in real life, which is so cool. So a lot of my pottery, you guys know about my pottery dreams. A lot of that is also inspired by Jonathan Adler. So, yeah, if you’re in the mood for a YouTube binge, watch his little videos in his studio, making pottery and just chatting and things like that. It’s very…it warms my heart. OK, we can move on to the next one.

Emma: He’s very cool. OK. My next is a woman who I think is probably on everyone’s vision board and if not, I don’t even know what you’re doing.

Elsie: Everyone in the world…

Emma: So it’s Oprah. Now there are so many things I think you could say about Oprah that are inspiring. From her background to what she’s achieved in her life and what she’s still achieving, but I just want to say two things that I really admire about Oprah, even though there could be so many more. So one is her sincere curiosity about others. And of course, this makes sense, given what she’s known for her profession. She had a talk show for years now she has her Super Bowl Sunday podcast. You know, she interviews people. So I think this is kind of a must for her field. But I also just really admire that about her. And I think about it sometimes when I’m meeting new people. I think it’s really cool to have a sincere curiosity about others and to be open to different points of view and to understanding where other people are coming from, even if they’re very different from you or maybe you don’t even agree with them, or maybe you do, or maybe you’ve never even heard of whatever it is they’re into. I just think curiosity is really, really cool. So that, and then the other thing I would say is her openness to spirituality and growth. I definitely think of Oprah as a very spiritual person. I don’t know if everyone does. I do. She’s just had so many, like spiritual leaders on her show and goes through topics on things like that. And I love her curiosity with that and her openness to it. I want to be that way. If you remember, Elsie and I both shared an episode about our background growing up in a conservative evangelical church, and it wasn’t a positive experience overall. And so I think that type of thing can make it where you kind of shut down. And I just, I want to be a person who stays open and who keeps going and finds new ways to approach spirituality, personal growth. And Oprah is definitely a person who I think embodies that. And I really admire that about her.

Elsie: I do as well. I think I was shut down also for a long time. Like, I just would label myself not religious or not spiritual. And I definitely wasn’t curious about things and almost like even a little scared. Yeah, but I aspire to be more open. I think that’s the key to it. And I love Oprah.

Emma: Yeah, it does, too. Like it’s a fear thing. I think it takes a lot of bravery to stay open to things. And yeah, I think she’s a very brave person and I’d like to embody that myself. Now we’ll take a little break and hear a word from our sponsor.

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Emma: Who is your third person?

Elsie: Ok, so my third and final person on my vision board is Dolly Parton. So it’s not news that everyone loves Dolly Parton. So if you haven’t listened to the podcast that came out a couple of years back, Dolly Parton’s America, it is one of the best podcasts I’ve listened to. If you just want to hear a good story and just get to know her as a human, it was very good. I really enjoyed it. And it kind of goes over a lot of like how like, first of all, like you get to really know, like, how talented she was in Nashville. It’s kind of a thing that you can drive past the home where she wrote I Will Always Love You and Jolene in one day. It’s like a very famous thing that she wrote those two number one hit songs in the same day. Who does that? Yeah, you can drive by the home and it’s like a regular looking home and it makes you feel like, any of us could be Dolly Parton or like be, you know, in the future. Like, it just makes you feel like the possibilities are endless. There’s a Garth Brooks home like that, too. Oh, and I think another thing about her kind of a little bit somewhat similar to what I was talking about with Martha Stewart is just how like discounted she’s been over time, like reduced down to, like, a lot of my childhood memories of who Dolly Parton is and what’s specific about her was like plastic surgery and boobs and like things like that. I think that in certain times, especially like in the nineties, that people weren’t really, like, recognizing her humanity as much. They were kind of just like almost like treating her like she was like some kind of cartoon or something. So I’m hoping that that is something that the world is moving away from and that I think it is. But it’s still like something that she had to go through and like seeing that she, like, persevered through that when people like what she was doing, serious interviews, where people were just asking her, like boob questions. And she still kept like, you know, feeling like it was worth it to even be in the public eye and do what she does for a living and continue on having her career, because a lot of people stop whenever they go through a season of, like, a lot of shaming or a lot of criticism. So I think it’s just…

Emma: Well I’m sure it’s a little demoralizing to be known for something that, you know, you’re not I don’t know if she’s ashamed of the way she looks or her body or anything like that.

Elsie: No!

Emma: I don’t think so. But, I think she…

Elsie: Probably just sick of people emphasizing it.

Emma: Yeah, well, I mean, she’s an incredible songwriter, so among other things. And so, you know, if that’s not what you’re leading with, I think that would be incredibly frustrating. But, you know, yeah, she made it through. She still doin it!

Elsie: She kept going. So she was definitely ahead of her time. I think that now everyone can recognize that and admire that about her. And our kids love Dolly Parton. We have giant Dolly Parton posters throughout our home. And they like pretty often ask me when we’re going to meet Dolly Parton, which I still like, I don’t hold out hope that maybe eventually, like I don’t personally enjoy meeting famous people, but I would love to meet Dolly Parton, especially for my kids. I think that it’s really special. And another thing that I just wanted to mention that’s really special about her and something like a lot of what she does kind of like goes in the background and like, you know, like you see her on, like the Grammys or on like a funny interview or whatever, but you don’t see things like this. So she has this charity called the Imagination Library, the Dolly Parton Imagination Library, and she sends out books. And our younger daughter got on the list for these books because when we first got back from China, she was enrolled in a program called Early Intervention, which, if you don’t know, is a program for children who have special needs and delays that they can have until age three in Tennessee and in lots of places. And so, anyway, through being in that program, they automatically enrolled her in the Dolly Parton Imagination Library, which just goes to show you how many kids are being affected by this charity. And every single month they send us a children’s book and they’re really good books and they’re really cute. And I love getting to tell the kids that Dolly Parton sent them a book. It’s really, it’s really something. And I looked it up and read that they have gifted as of 2020 over one hundred and fifty million books. So I think that’s something that we can all just like take that into our hearts and never let go of it. Also, you can donate to the Imagination Library, so I’ll put that link in our show notes, we can all be a little part of it. But yeah, let’s try to look up to Dolly Parton. I mean, that’s definitely not her only charitable thing that she does. But, yeah, it’s so incredibly special and it definitely touched our family.

Emma: Yeah. And I, I know we shouldn’t mention the Jessica Simpson book again because we do every podcast, but I just can’t help but think of that story. When you mentioned Dolly Parton, you know, and if you don’t know, Jessica Simpson tells a story in her book, Open Book about a time she, you know, messed up a Dolly Parton song at a Dolly Parton tribute. So in front of Dolly, she sang the song wrong. And it was very embarrassing for Jessica. Very terrible, sad story. And afterwards…

Elsie: It was John Mayer’s fault.

Emma: Yeah, well, it was alcohol’s fault, I think, is what Jessica would say. Anyway, afterwards, Dolly Parton came to her dressing room. So it’s a benefit for her. It’s a big party for her. This is like her thing where everyone’s celebrating her and she takes the time to go backstage and go to Jessica Simpson and be like, oh, that song is actually really hard. I wrote it and I have a hard time singing it. I hear you’re going to do it again. You know, she was just being exceptionally gracious and I love — it doesn’t surprise me at all because Dolly Parton seems this way. But I love when women lift up other women. I find that endlessly inspiring. And I want to be a woman like that for sure.

Elsie: I just I love her so much. Well, I’m glad we did this episode. This was really — I feel really warm in my heart right now. So I hope you all feel that way, too. It feels really good to have heroes. I think it’s something that has definitely changed my life as like…when I was younger, I didn’t think it was like cool to be a super fan. And then I realized it’s actually so cool to be a super fan and you can learn so much. So, OK, we are going to do a question from our hotline now.

Abby: Hi, my name’s Abby. I’m calling because I would love to hear about the evolution of your hobbies throughout your life. So those things that are like strictly for fun, I’d love to hear how you choose which hobbies that you like to do and keep. And I’d love to hear how you make time for them.

Elsie: I feel like a lot of our hobbies through the years have somewhat made it into our blog or our business in some way. Not all of them, but definitely a lot of them, because it’s like especially if it’s like a creative hobby it’s just so easy to integrate it into your blog, like when we got into home design or when we got into cooking or baking or you know what I mean? For me now, one of the biggest things I talk about in therapy and like one of my biggest goals for life is to always stay interested in things and always be trying new things and I’m reading this book called The Brain that Changes Itself. I will put it in the show notes. It’s really interesting, really different kind of book, but it has a lot of different stories about how humans have a big capacity to change our whole life through, even when you’re like 80 years old. So I think that that’s something I always want to do. So right now, I’m planning to build a greenhouse and a pottery studio, and that’s like my big inspiration, although I feel also like I’m taking, like I’m taking a chill because I have little kids and like, my little kids are like the biggest part of my life. So I would love to have, like, more and more hobbies as like I can definitely see myself being like 60 years old and taking a basket weaving class or like, you know, a French pastry class or kind of just like any kind of class. Like after my kids get in junior high, I’ll probably sign back up for Master Class again. (laughs)

Emma: Yeah. 100 hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah. OK, so one of the first things I thought of was when I was in like middle school and high school, one hobby I had that I really loved and that I’ve kind of brought back a little bit here and there, but just randomly is making collages. I really like to like cut up magazines or like, you know, make a very, very simple painting and then, like, cut it up and make collages. One of my favorite artists, Clover Robin, I love her Instagram account. I have her book. She does collage pieces, collage art, and it’s really beautiful. And so, yeah, I don’t know something about that is very accessible I was one of those kids that I always have loved art, but I’ve never felt like a very strong, like painter or like drawing, which I still like to paint. And like I mean, you don’t have to be good at something to enjoy it. But yeah, I never really felt like that was my thing growing up. So I always really gravitated towards things that were more like this. And I, I love collage. So that’s one of them, I would say. And then. The other big one for me, at least like recently, has been writing, I would love that to be more of a career thing at some point in my life, but I have no idea if that will happen or not. But I definitely feel like I have a few books in me like fiction novels, and I’ve written one and I’ve been working on the second one, although very, very slowly and I think I’ve mentioned it in other podcast episodes. But it’s kind of a darker concept, the one I’m working on now. So I’ve really slowed down with it as my year has been full, like emotionally and also like I’ve been pregnant. So I’ve just been tired. My back hurts. And I just when I’m done with my work, I kind of don’t feel like being on my laptop anymore. So I’ve slowed a little bit, but I definitely am going to finish it like I know how that book ends and I can kind of know what the character might even do it in a sequel. So I feel like that’s why it has a life beyond just like this season of my life. So writing is something that I’m interested in. Maybe it would become more of a career and less of a hobby, but maybe not, I don’t know, beats me! (laughs). So…

Elsie: Something I would want to add to that for Abby is she asked how we make time for it and like something I think is like cool about life or like a perspective is I used to think that I wasn’t really like into something unless I was doing it all the time, which there are things, certain things like that, maybe like exercising where you do have to do it every week to like consider yourself into it. But there are so many hobbies, like I’m really into making sugar cookies. I really only do it probably like five or six times the whole year. So it’s not like every week or anything. It’s not even every month. But, you know, like in the fall I start and then, you know, I keep going and going until Christmas and then I usually don’t really even worry about it again until it’s fall again. So I think just like lowering your expectation on yourself for your time is sometimes a good thing to do with hobbies like you. Just because you don’t do it all the time or finish it quickly doesn’t mean that you’re not into it or it’s not a good hobby for you.

Emma: Yeah, and some people really have a, I don’t know if it’s a personality thing or what, but some people like to go very deep with something like if they get into sewing, they can all of a sudden sew anything and everything. And then some people like me, sewed a quilt, that was awesome. I haven’t really sewn much in the last two or three years. I probably will pick it up again later. I’d call myself more of like a hobby jumper, you know, (laughs) and I think that’s OK too. If it’s like you don’t necessarily need it for a job, you’re just looking for something creative to fill your time with, or you want to finish a project, but you don’t necessarily want to be the best potter in the world or the best seamstress in the world or what, you know, whatever the thing is like, you can just enjoy it, you know, in the moment. And then if you’re like, OK, I want to do another one. Great. And if you’re like, I think I’ll leave that for now and do something else, it’s like, that’s fine, too. It’s for fun. It’s it’s, just self-care. Don’t worry about it.

Elsie: I support that. I love it. Thank you so much for listening. If you have a chance, leave us a review on Apple podcast and subscribe wherever you listen to podcasts. Be sure and subscribe because then it will pop up every week when we have a new one. Sometimes we have two in a week and there’s a surprise once you don’t want to miss it. We are starting to do our mini episodes now, so we’re going to be having a couple minis a month in addition to our full episode every Monday that you’re used to. Anyway, you can email us questions at podcast@abeautifulmess.com or now you can call our hotline. And the number for that is 417-893-0011.